Typical public reaction to this site

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Typical public reaction to this site
 Sorry for the long paste below, but I wanted you to see the reaction from Joe Q. Public to this site.
I read & post on several other unrelated sites, and have occassionally mentioned this site on them. Recently I asked for feedback from people on an investment / political site what they thought about the chrismartenson site, and below is some sample feedback.
It may or may not be representative with regards to how the average person responds, it's just frustrating to me when obviously intelligent people don't give the site a fair shake due to their 1st immediate impression. Below is my post and the first few responses:
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The future of the U.S. dollar & economy

Would be extremely grateful if those of you who are wiser, more intelligent, & more experienced than myself (basically all of you!) would take a look at the following & give me your opinion:

http://www.peakprosperity.com/crashcourse

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Old Today, 12:04 PM

  #2
Chip Spewer

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Re: The future of the U.S. dollar & economy

i chose one movie to watch and can extrapolate it will be quite pessimistic / negative. at a glance, i'd say take the projections of the movie and reduce them by maybe 35-50% and that is likely how bad it will get. now keep in mind i've done nothing more than watch 1.5 minutes of this (the fed part to see where he was coming from) lol

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Old Today, 12:23 PM

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Re: The future of the U.S. dollar & economy

Barron,
How pessimistic are you?
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Old Today, 12:39 PM

  #4
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Re: The future of the U.S. dollar & economy

In the little intro video he says he says something about his 6 hour "End of Money" seminar, I turned it off right there.
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Old Today, 12:47 PM

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Re: The future of the U.S. dollar & economy

I cant figure out where the USD is going. I know pretty good arguments either way made by people who saw the crisis coming. The economy will be in the tank for years of course. Matter of fact I think I will buy more fed funds futures to bet the fed will stay low for longer than the market thinks
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Old Today, 04:10 PM

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Chip Spewer

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Re: The future of the U.S. dollar & economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtower View Post
Barron,
How pessimistic are you?

well i don't think the market has bottomed nd the economy certainly hasn't (obv). i think there is quite a few expectations still to be killed on the downside. today caught me by surprise as that was one indicator that i didn't expect to be less negative than forecast so that castes some doubt on my pessimism.

so i guess i'm 'medium' pessimistic.

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Old Today, 04:11 PM

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Chip Spewer

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Re: The future of the U.S. dollar & economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormwolf View Post
I cant figure out where the USD is going. I know pretty good arguments either way made by people who saw the crisis coming. The economy will be in the tank for years of course. Matter of fact I think I will buy more fed funds futures to bet the fed will stay low for longer than the market thinks

i've been trying REALLY hard to decide which way i think futures will go and when. what contract are you buying?

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Old Today, 05:06 PM

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Re: The future of the U.S. dollar & economy

Long 09 Oct and Nov. Thinking of adding, there is just no way in hell the fed raises rates this year, unemployment is a lagging indicator, in the scenario the economy(GDP) recovers during the 2nd half(which I dont think its all that likely), jobs will still be shred every quarter. risk reward is poor, but I think the odds are overwhealming
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Old Today, 05:29 PM

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Chip Spewer

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Re: The future of the U.S. dollar & economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormwolf View Post
Long 09 Oct and Nov. Thinking of adding, there is just no way in hell the fed raises rates this year, unemployment is a lagging indicator, in the scenario the economy(GDP) recovers during the 2nd half(which I dont think its all that likely), jobs will still be shred every quarter. risk reward is poor, but I think the odds are overwhealming

so you ride this from 99.4 to 99.85? seems like you need a TON of risk here and this can move if the economy picks up (Which i highly doubt it does). what leverage are you getting...i think most i could get is 4:1 or so which puts a 100k margin up per contract so that ties up capital as well...just 'tested' this and it seems it only ties up 2k so IB allows a TON here :-)

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Old Today, 05:47 PM

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Re: The future of the U.S. dollar & economy

Been riding this one for a while, it was the trade that made me in 2008. contract is worth $400K, so it can wipe me out in a black swanish scenario the fed hikes a ridiculous amount and says more is coming

I keep trying to milk more profits out of them because it just look like free money, I think the fed keeps the zero range through the entire 2010, but I just dont want to risk to go that far
In the last credit crunch(90-91), greenspan keep rates low till feb 1994. Kept at 1% 1 year after 2003. this suggests the first hike is coming at dec 09, but this time is much worse so late 2010 looks more right
When they started to hike, they did 300bps in the first 12 months of hiking of those cycles, so there is a risk out there

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

GR8TFUL,

Don't be discouraged by what you just showed us. It
is obvious to me that these people are basically interested in
speculation to satisfy their immediate greed. People like this are
self-centered and only care about "what's in it for me?".

As you
read the various forums on this site, you will notice that there is
strong interest on solving our problems and working with others to help
make it happen (e.g. The Martenson Brigade).

Folks on this site
will work to make this world a better place. The greedy ones on the
site you showed us are like the grasshopper in Aesop's fable "The Ant
and the Grasshopper" (http://www.umass.edu/aesop/fable.php?n=0).

When their self-centered world collapses, they will be tapping on our door looking for salvation. I, for one, will not answer.

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

GR8TFUL,

As SamLinder said - don't be discouraged by the reaction. I get the same skeptical reaction all the time myself. But where I did have success, all of a sudden those people want to learn more and they have awoken. Sometimes you need to think of yourself as a salesman - not everyone will buy your product, but those that do will enjoy it.

And remember what Chris and people like Ron Paul have said, you only need 8-10% of the population to force a change or a revolution.

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

GR8TFUL,

My wife thinks I am too negative, I should think about positive things.  I asked her, "If a hurricane is coming and I am obsessing over the weather forecasting, is that negative or trying to be as prepared as possible"?  She has no good answer and I continue to prepare.  The only way I can continue to prepare is to motivate myself daily with this site and others that discuss what I think are probabilities for our future.  Otherwise I fall back into complacency like most others.

I suggested to one of my co-workers that she take a look at "The Long Emergency".  She said, "No thanks".

Sam is right about your friends.  It seems as though they are looking for an angle to make a profit on events.  I am thinking of ways to survive and to try and help others survive.  I think our future will be more focused on daily life than turning a buck.

SAM,

Thanks for mentioning "The Ant and The Grasshopper".  Aesop's Fables were some of my favorite reading as a child and that is one that has really shown me a lot of guidance throughout my life.

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

GR8TFUL,

I just had one of those moments of realization after reading all of the comments to your original post. That is that perhaps the nature of this site is somewhat self sorting in that it naturally attracts those with a sincere desire to make a difference.

I agree with the general opinion that the authors of the comments you noted are not the types of individuals I would want to be holed up with anyway. So we should be grateful or is it GR8FUL !!

Coop

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

I thought Chris presented a strong and unbiased argument in his videos.  Maybe it's because I'd already read Peter Schiff, lol.  Now he's doom and gloom.  Personally I learned a lot from the Crash Course and was truly enlightened when it came to the sections on oil and natural resource depletion.  It didn't go counter to any of my beliefs though--a lot of this is stuff I suppose I'd subconsciously suspected for a long time. 

As for others... I wanted to spread the message and pretty much got brushed off too.

I think it's sad that people would dismiss this so easily (it doesn't sound like anyone in your forum even watched more than two minutes worth), but I guess there's a lot of truth to the idea that you can only be taught what you're ready to learn.  

There's a part of me that hopes fecal matter really does hit the fan, if only for the "I told you so" factor, but I'd settle for big box stores being put out of business and a return to a less materialistic lifestyle. :)

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

Public reaction??? What about family reaction??? I am in my mid 40s and known as, Miss Doom and Gloom by my parents and siblings.  At least my husband and children have listened and thankfully most of my friends.  It does take some work to get the message thru, but persistence usually prevails one step at a time... I am not giving up on anyone.  As the economy gets worse, more and more people certainly have an open ear.  Won't be long before your family and friends are coming out of the woodwork for advice from you!

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

I've been accused of being a "doomer" many times.  I've also heard Heinberg, Kuntsler, Chris M., and others who are telling the truth as they see it labeled this way.  This is a recent response I wrote to that accusation.

-----------------------

I’ve often heard people who are raising the alarm about the Three Es (economy, environment and energy) accused of being “gloom & doomers”.  While I have actually encountered some folks who fit that description, my experience is that it’s usually a mischaracterization.  I think it’s crucial to recognize that not all problems can be solved through positive thinking or action.  On a personal level, death is the most obvious example.  We are all going to die no matter what action we take and what our attitude is about death.  On a planetary level, the possibility that the earth could become a ball of ice in a period of 30 years also illustrates this point.

Our society’s dependence on oil and the inevitable peak in its supply represents a problem that can’t be “solved” through individual, regional or even national action alone.  Instead of viewing these issues as problems to be solved, we might instead embrace John Michael Greer’s suggestion to see them as predicaments that invite a response.  The distinction may seem academic, but I think it’s really important.  A problem calls for a solution which, once employed, eliminates the problem. A predicament, however, has no solution.  Faced with predicaments, people come up with responses which may fail, succeed, or fall in between, but none of them eliminates the predicament.

For me, the reality that we do not have complete control over the circumstances of our lives highlights the benefit of a spiritual approach to the challenges we face.  In Kubler-Ross’s Five Stages of Grief, acceptance is the final stage and the precondition to healing.  In the context of patients with a terminal illness (which ultimately means all of us!), death isn’t a problem to be solved but a predicament to be responded to.  Acceptance means acknowledging the predicament and healing means, not survival, but coming to terms with impending death and responding appropriately.

My sense of “doomers” is that they are stuck in anger, fear or depression.  It is actually their inability to accept what is happening and to truly allow all of the feelings that come with that recognition that prevents them from responding and taking action.  I’ve noticed that the people who seem to have the deepest understanding of the problem are rarely, if ever, doomers.  In fact, it’s common that people who are first exposed to this information ask experts like Richard Heinberg how they can maintain such a positive attitude even as they warn us of civilization’s impending decline.  Their answer is that in the process of beginning to respond to these issues we make changes in our lives that bring us satisfaction and joy.  The transformation towards the life they envision has already begun, and they are reaping the benefits.  I’ve found this to be true in my own experience as well.

I think it’s entirely possible to stare the full reality of the Three Es in the face and work towards creating a more sustainable and rewarding life at the same time.  In fact, the latter may even be an inevitable result of the former.
 

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

The crash course has been getting favorable review at sites like Peakoil.com, where of course folks already believe there are significant issue 

http://peakoil.com/fortopic44551-0-asc-0.html

Friends seem to agree with me on issues like the Fed trying to reinflate the credit bubble won't work because it's repeating the same mistake, but they're not moved to take actions yet like watch the crash course DVD I gave them or write their congressmen to stop all these bailouts.  They probably won't act until they directly feel the impact of current crises personally, and when they can percieve a gain from taking action. 

Right now, many friends seem to percieve a "cost" in taking action; e.g. lower standard of living because they  cut expenses etc.  I tyr to point out that reducing and simplifying is actually improving my quality of life.

 

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

I've handed out around 20 CC's  to people ranging from a Vice President of an insurance company to a clerk in a paint store,  and have not heard from them yet in response. Hopefully now that the holidays are over they might take the time to view the CC. What I hear most often is, "When things get back to normal", when I try to explain that they most likely will not get back to normal they want to change the subject. One person refused to take a disk from me saying that he didn't want to know what might happen, weird! When they ask why I'm giving out the CC I tell them that if they had worked in the WTC and I knew what was going to happen on 9/11 I would warn them.

Next week I'm going to start handing out the CC to the City Manager, High School Principal, Police,  and Priests/ Ministers and see what response I get from them. Will keep you informed, Happy New Year,

Greg

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

Greg, Chris - good posts and good info - thanks. 

When I was growing up (my wife would argue that I haven't and still am) my father used to tell us "Never murder a man who is committing suicide."  I didn't really know what that meant until I was older.

We ordered 100 Crash Course DVDs and gave them to friends and family members for Christmas.  When my wife called her family Christmas Day - my mother in law (as she was passing the phone around) said words to the effect "Who wants to talk to Miss Doom and Gloom?"  My parents were a tough nut to crack - but at least they have been through CC and are asking questions.

We've had more luck with co-workers and friends than we've had with family.

The common response I get from skeptics is "I'm not worried, the government will do something, they always do."

To which I counter "You mean the same people who got us into this mess?"  Sometimes that breaks the ice and they start to listen.  Sometimes they just smile as if I was speaking Swahili and their eyes glaze over.

Another thing I have tried is to have a copy of "Financial Armageddon" "The reature From Jekyl Island" or "Twilight In The Desert" with me when I travel.  Taking advantage of people's inherent nosiness, most people ask what the book is about and the conversation starts from there.  You can tell fairly quickly if you are sowing seeds on rocks or soil.  Ultimately they can be steered to this site and The Crash Course and all you can hope for is that they follow up.  I travelled to San Diego from Virginia recently and had a 4 hour conversation with the guys sitting on either side and the rows in front and in back of me.  Hopefully some of them followed up and actually checked out the site.

Anyone else have any unique ideas or examples of what has worked to get the conversation going?

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

Dogs_In_A_Pile:

Do U find that deadheads are more receptive to this site than others? ;-) Maybe if you handed them a rare soudboard along with the Crash Course DVD?!?

Just kidding, nice to find out that I'm not the only fan on this site!

"Strangers stopping strangers, just to shake their hands . . . "

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

GR8TFUL -

Wasn't sure if your forum name was indicative of your opinion of Chris Martenson or the boys (or both) but figured my name and logo would flush you out....

Funny you should ask, I have had many conversations over on the Dead thread forum on Live Music Archive http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead on what has been going on in the economy and have referred quite a few of the regulars there to this site. I think about 6 guys have at least checked it out - one has been through CC and we have kicked some ideas back and forth. We try to keep that to a minimum as the intent is a place to discuss GD related things, but the forum rules there are fast and loose, so as long as it doesn't start to dominate the posts, most people tolerate sidebars pretty well.

BTW - I have every available SBD from '65-''79 plus about a dozen boots. Around 1.2 TB total.

"It would not make me tremble to see (a) 10,000 (point) fall (in the DJIA)"

Apologies to Jack-A-Roe.

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

I've been extremely active in trying to promulgate the message of the Crash Course.  So far, only ONE person has truly gotten it and can carry on a discussion with me about the ideas extemporaneously.  A few others were grateful for the link, but there was no follow up.  Most people are overtly negative toward the course, or, at best, indifferent. 

I think we are just way too far from a real downturn for most people to begin looking beyond their back yards.  As to the message of the Crash Course, once it's actually gone through, it seems either "take" or it doesn't.  I'm not sure I should waste much time on trying to convince people anymore; it just seems to entrench them further into their denial, so I figure they'll come around one day when they figure out they've been sold a pack of lies.  Or not.

The reason we are in the mess we are is that people are basically sheep, and that is the sad truth.

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

GR8.

You'll go through 20 people for every one that catches on. It's a bit different for me at work though. I work with some guys that are very very sharp and generally contemptous of the STATUS QUO. So when I send them something, it doesn't mean that they are going to agree with it, but as long as it's not "common sense" (an oxymoron IMO) they'll at least have a look at it, 

Right now I am 5 for 5 with friends at work. 1 for 12 out of work. 

You're just not going to be able to convince a lot of people to keep an open mind. 

Particularly the average American. Sorry, true caricature coming...

We want our information in an executive summary, dumbed down so that we don't have to analyze too much, and preferably something that most people would want to believe anyways. 

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

MGhandi wrote:

We want our information in an executive summary, dumbed down so that we don't have to analyze too much, and preferably something that most people would want to believe anyways. 

Executive summary?  Try five-second soundbite.  Few people read anymore.

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

This video, while a little corny, makes a great point.

http://revolutionarypolitics.com/?p=402

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

"The reason we are in the mess we are is that people are basically sheep, and that is the sad truth."

I think George Orwell had it right in Animal Farm, pigs are the politicians and the businessmen who get favors from the politicians, dogs the military and police, horses are the honest business people, the donkey and the raven are the philosophers, and the rest of the animals are the common people. I don't see how this situation could ever change and therefore things will always be messed up. I think Mr. Hewitt might be right that we are wasting our time but I'm still going to give it a try and hopefully find that he is wrong.

Greg

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

It seems to me that those who appreciate this site resonate with it in similar ways. The fact-oriented, powerpoint style and the implication of intelligence, personal responsibility and community values all appeal to certain kinds of folks, myself included.

A problem arises in that not everyone responds to this style. Just as effective educators think about various 'learning styles', if the message of the Crash Course is even partly correct, then a significant challenge for those who believe it is to learn to communicate the message to people who respond to different sorts of stimulae. Those posts that mention asking people about their concerns begin, I think, at a useful point.

So far I've had much better luck talking with people if I first listen to their world rather then tossing facts and conclusions into their laps.

If the message is important, as I believe it is, the CC is but one way to communicate it. One that appeals to folks like us. But we will need many other ways to communicate, ways that speak to all the varieties of people who do need to learn about these things if we hope to move the message beyond our self-selecting bubble.

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

Excellent points & post SnowshoeBob!

Directly relating to what you said: "So far I've had much better luck talking with people if I first listen to their world rather then tossing facts and conclusions into their laps."

I think it's important to realize that when you are talking to people about this site, handing them DVDs, etc., though most of you would not consider yourselves as trying to "sell" anyone anything, in fact you are. You are trying to convince (or sell) people that this site & the info. on it is worth them "spending" their time on.

 Once you accept that you in fact trying to sell something, then you need to ask yourself what sales method will work most effectively for you. As Bob pointed out, first find out what the person's needs (concerns) are, then sell them a solution that best fits their specific need.

 

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Re: Typical public reaction to this site

I agree with gr8tful about the excellence of your post, showshoebob.  There is no reason I can think of that we shouldn't use the same marketing/selling techniques and advertising expertise as the best in the sheeple world (except that it might put some of our own thinking types off - but they'll get over it when they are explained the benefits for all). I think about what a humongous effort it would be to translate CC into Rap or Facebook language, but that is exactly what we need I think.  Oprah seems to be logical and caring about her followers from what I've heard and I wonder if the mention of her here some time ago has been followed up? In my mind, there is no quicker way to pass the word other than on the internet.  

I too have had little success with passing the message about our future.  I think most people simply are not hurting enough yet to hear it and are in pure denial. I do think however that under NO circumstances should the character of cm.com change.  There could be another website, whatever.  This is home to our types and it should remain so.

As always, the hardest nut to crack will be those who are still comfortable (I mean other than those who don't give a rap about the rest of their fellow humans).    These conversations on cm.com mean to me that we will find a way soon if only because of the enormous talent on this site, the obvious commitment of its followers and its exponential growth :).

Rosemary

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Try another approach?

I wonder if anyone out there has played 'the farming game'?

The man who produced it was a farmer who wanted to write a novel about farming, but was having trouble, and instead made a game. It isn't a good simulation of farming, but it does have the look and feel and, well , it draws interest.

So I'm thinking about a game in which you start with a good economy, and certarn assets, and everything is exponentially growing... and going downhill.

So your goal is to stabilize. And maybe part of it is that each person crafts their own event card, and before you begin you choose half of them, and that modifies the game, but gets people thinking about events too...

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